tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14168956.post8665843261453355624..comments2024-03-25T06:39:42.081-04:00Comments on Bonfire of the Vanities: Is it possible for all people to be saved?Fr Martin Foxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14168956.post-28595398836612098922013-11-22T13:40:44.067-05:002013-11-22T13:40:44.067-05:00Jero:
I don't really see what your comment ha...Jero:<br /><br />I don't really see what your comment has to do with this post.<br /><br />But to the substance of your idea, my response is to say, no, that strikes me as a very odd idea.<br /><br />What good does it do to have seminarians experience confessing sins to a woman? It doesn't tell them what it feels like, being a woman, confessing to a man. So what does it accomplish?Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14168956.post-57093662408060284282013-11-22T11:34:00.479-05:002013-11-22T11:34:00.479-05:00As part of the formation for priesthood: would it ...As part of the formation for priesthood: would it help to have seminarians going to confession to a woman, prior to going to confession to a man-priest? Just to experience the feelings of confession to the opposite gender….Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00014030377164865629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14168956.post-65966230223437077232013-11-04T11:14:31.319-05:002013-11-04T11:14:31.319-05:00Distinguish between past humans and non past human... Distinguish between past humans and non past humans.<br />You and God can hypothetically save all non past humans through prayer.<br /> Past humans is a radically different problem because we know that hundreds of thousands of people have died in the act of piracy, in the act of suicide, in the acts of attempted murder, some in the act of adultery, some while cursing God. It is bizarre to think that in every one of those cases, either God converted them all in their last few breaths or that many were not in mortal sin because they lacked full consent or sufficient reflection about being a pirate. Plus....to enter purgatory at all, you must be in sanctifying grace. Purgatory is not the default setting; it requires not material but formal innocence. How does a pirate get that innocence while slitting throats.<br /> I'm not a Voris fan but in this area, he is quite good. Fr. Barron's recent Origin based metaphoric outlook on the massacres of the OT would have predicted his emphasis on this hell issue. Benedict also liked Origin and stated that the Church has not declared on Judas which avoids the question....didn't Christ try several times to tell you where Judas is: once using past tense prophecy which St. Justin Martyr noted was certain ( Isaiah 53:2 etc.) not conditional like Jonah predicting Nineveh had 40 days left. " Those whom thou gavest me I guarded and not one of them perished except the son of perdition"... was said by Christ prior to Judas' despair in God's mercy and resultant suicide.bill bannonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09737277581167437670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14168956.post-24030549708735785512013-11-03T18:33:54.517-05:002013-11-03T18:33:54.517-05:00I think it is possible that everyone could be save...I think it is possible that everyone could be saved; we are talking about the power of God, here. We choose not to to be saved, we sin, on purpose! and abuse the Holy Spirit and the Son by thinking we can bargain and time our moment of salvation to coincide with the moment WE want to stop sinning. We can all be saved, but we won't all be saved, because we are nearly all fools. rcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09131930849106490711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14168956.post-51357825481295808922013-11-03T17:09:18.983-05:002013-11-03T17:09:18.983-05:00Fr. Fox,
Thank you for responding. You are corre...Fr. Fox,<br /><br />Thank you for responding. You are correct in thinking that I think it is impossible for all to be saved. I think it is a prayer made in vain if it is made with the thought that all will actually be saved. I understand our liturgical prayers for all to be saved in meaning that we "hope" for all to turn to God and accept the salvation he has given to us. I do not think our Blessed Mother would give us a prayer that asks for ALL to be saved, while at the same time telling us that sexual immorality is sending more souls to hell than any other sin.<br /><br />Also, I think the parable (I don't think it was a parable) about the rich man and Lazarus has a lesson in it for this question at hand. Abraham would not allow Lazarus to visit the still alive relatives of the rich man. Abraham said they have the Law and the Prophets and that even a man raised from the dead would not convince them. If all we have now is what is revealed to us in the Law and the Prophets, and Christ's passion, death and resurrection, can we really expect Christ to touch the unrepentant at death and cause his heart to soften. This would mean the Church teaches incorrectly when She teaches that there is such a sin against the Holy Spirit, which as you know boils down to an unrepentant sinner that dies in such a state of disgrace.<br /><br />God bless,<br />michaelCM7https://www.blogger.com/profile/07438061668265715771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14168956.post-34700961330572799222013-11-03T14:12:22.925-05:002013-11-03T14:12:22.925-05:00Michael:
Thanks for visiting.
You said, "I ...Michael:<br /><br />Thanks for visiting.<br /><br />You said, "I think it is silly and down right unbiblical to think ALL will be saved..."<br /><br />First, let's get something very clear.<br /><br />I never said everyone "will" be saved.<br /><br />So if that's what you think I said, you might want to read my post again. Because I made the point, above, that in this discussion, people read more than is there. Looks like you did that.<br /><br />If I understand you correctly, you hold that no, it not possible for all human beings to be saved. Am I correct in that?<br /><br />If so, then why does the Church pray for the impossible?<br /><br />I'm not talking about a "prayer request"--I'm talking about the Church's liturgy. Through and through, the Sacred Liturgy asks God to save all humanity. Why do that if it's impossible?<br /><br />As far as explaining the sheep and goats, I already have in my original post. The passage tells us that people are in danger of being sent to hell.<br /><br />Tell me: why did Jesus even give the parable? What did he come to do? (Hint: look at the words at the conclusion of today's Gospel, in the Ordinary Form: "the son of man came to seek and to save what was lost."<br /><br />How hard is this? <br /><br />Jesus gives a vivid, frightening--and TRUE--picture of what fate befalls those who do not repent, do not care for the least of his brethren.<br /><br />What is wrong with saying that the parable was given as a warning?<br />On what basis do you reject that understanding of the passage?<br /><br />And if it's a warning (which it clearly is): then why do you chafe at the idea of the warning being heeded? Isn't that what God wants? <br /><br />See the Book of Jonah. The prophet is mad because no fire and brimstone falls on Nineveh; but that's exactly what God wanted to happen. Did that outcome invalidate the truth of Jonah's preaching? <br /><br />Of course not. That's part of the artistry of that book.<br /><br />In a similar way, I don't see any problem if lots of would-be goats decide to change their ways because of that parable.Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14168956.post-38418645970100436112013-11-03T12:23:56.376-05:002013-11-03T12:23:56.376-05:00I think it is silly and down right unbiblical to t...I think it is silly and down right unbiblical to think ALL will be saved or we have any "hope" that ALL will be saved. If we do, then you have to explain to me who the "goats" are at Final Judgment. Hope is a theological virtue and one cannot "hope" another gets to heaven. One can only ask, pray or wish for it. Hoping on a mere natural level is no better then wishing someone well, and there is no grace involved in it. A prayer that asks Jesus to "lead ALL souls to heaven" is merely a petition. To base a "hope" that ALL will be saved on a prayer request is a little reaching.<br /><br />mpCM7https://www.blogger.com/profile/07438061668265715771noreply@blogger.com