Wednesday, August 29, 2007

Mass in Latin begins next Wednesday

For all who are interested, next Wednesday morning at 8 am, we will begin having Mass (mostly) in Latin once a month at St. Mary Parish in Piqua.

As I explained to the folks at Mass this morning, this is an experiment--people have requested it, so now we will see if folks come. We'll do it for a while, to give folks that opportunity.

Important to note: this is the current, ordinary usage of the Mass in Latin, not the former, extraordinary usage of the Mass (so-called Tridentine Mass).

Also, you may note I said "mostly" in Latin. The readings and the orations of the day will be in English, but all else in Latin.

20 comments:

Anonymous said...

I disagree with the introduction of Latin in any way to the Mass.

Rich Koon

Anonymous said...

Interesting. I'm not sure what to think about this. I agree with the occasional heavy-on-Latin Mass, as my parish does. I don't know that daily Masses are the best time for that, since it doesn't typically engage a large number of the congregation. Still, it keeps the Latin from being an "imposition" on those that haven't requested it. I'll be interested to hear how this turns out!

-Gavin

Peggy said...

How exciting! Courageous of you to take it on. Good luck. May the Holy Spirit guide you.

Jane M said...

Will you celebrate it ad orientum?

Anonymous said...

We had a recent large event in our diocese at which the Kyrie was sung, the Sanctus sung by those assembled in Latin, and the communion hymn I believe (by the choir) was in Latin. The man beside me gave the Mass responses in Spanish, his first language, and I gave them in English, my first language. If I remember correctly, there were translations in English, Spanish, and Latin in the bulletin. The readings for the day were in English and Spanish. The homilist, a bishop, who is bilingual -- born in Mexico and now in large U.S. city -- included both English and Spanish in the homily. We sang, "Lord, you have come to the lakeshore" in both English and Spanish -- alternating verses. I was surprised -- and pleased -- at how well and loudly those present sang the Greek Kyrie and the Sanctus.

Fr. Ron Williams said...

I realize the following is non-sequitur your current post, but I thought you might find this interesting. It is a link to Interfax, the Russian news agency. Apparently, they have a regular column from a Russian Orthodox priest. Here are his "10 commandments of post-Christian paganism"

http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=mosaic&div=5

Father Martin Fox said...

Rich:

I appreciate your comment.

May I ask: do you think, then that even those who ask for it, should be refused? If so, may I ask why?

eileen said...

Father: I'm just wondering how I can manage a trip to Piqua at least once a month :) I know our parish and those nearby are not offering any Masses yet in Latin. God bless in honoring those parishioners who have requested.

Anonymous said...

After waiting for this for weeks it turns out I have an unavoidable business trip next Tues, Weds., Thurs. Hoping to make the next one!

Mrs Jackie Parkes MJ said...

Wonderful..i know we're lucky but we have that every Sunday anyway..

Deacon Harry said...

The Latin is beautiful. However I am struggling with the concept of the Latin Mass. We have such an immense challenge to proclaim the Gospel and teachings of the Church in a relevant way that can better reach the hearts of the people. The ability of the people to participate is going to be difficult unless they focus on the translation in the Missals. I also struggle with the sense of elitism and pride I feel in some Catholics who extol that the Latin Mass is the only real, or holy Mass. I would be interested in how this received and the fruits of grace that will come. May God bless and help us all as we seek His Kingdom, regardless of the language of our prayers.

Anonymous said...

Okay, folks, it only takes a few minutes to read our Holy Father's Motu Proprio and you'll see the Pope takes this to heart. He writes in very simple language for all to understand, and you'll easily see why he feels this liturgical rite be available to the Catholic Faithful worldwide. Mr. Coon, if you haven't read this Magisterial teaching, I would encourage you to do so. It is a gift of the Holy Spirit to the Lord's faithful children. If you have read it, then like Fr. Fox, I, too, would like to know why you think this gift should be refused to our Lord's followers?

Ohevin

Andy P. said...

Deacon Harry -- the Latin mass "reaches my heart" in a way the vernacular mass cannot. I find it quite "relevant". Of course, I am in the minority, but isn't it rude for a member of the "majority" to sneer at the aesthetic and linguistic tastes of a member of a rather embattled minority group? In other words, please treat us (at least!) as well as you treat, say, Jews or Muslims. A couple of masses you won't attend won't hurt you.

cordelia said...

geez people, we are LATIN RITE CATHOLICS aren't the least bit interested in what that means?

Anonymous said...

For some reason the term "Mass" keeps jumping out at me from every Catholic blog and website. I know that Mass came from a slurring or slangy referral to Ite Missa Est. But I don't know why we refer to the central liturgy of our faith with a slurry slang word that is neither Latin nor English. I suggest we begin to refer to the "Mass" as Divine Liturgy. This designation has always been used in the Roman Catholic Byzantine Rite, and of course the Orthodox Church. Does anyone else think the term "Mass" has had its day?
Annie

Father Martin Fox said...

Ohevin:

Just to reiterate, we will be celebrating the Mass according to the current, "ordinary" usage -- the Mass as reformed after Vatican II. But (mostly) in Latin, which surprises people but is entirely suitable.

Catholig said...

Father,

I feel that a Latin Novus Ordo can be beneficial, however I feel that ultimately the Tridentine Mass is what we should be aiming for. It is the rite of our Ancestors, and is the most beautiful thing this side of heaven. It is the Mass that Aquinas used (or at least very close to it as you can see if you want to view the 1474 Missal on my blog).

Also in response to Rich Koon - I disagree with the introduction of Vernacular in any way to the Mass. :P Remember Latin isn't being introduced - it is the original language of our Rite, and it is the language of the Novus Ordo Missae, believe it or not.

Catholig

Rich Koon said...

How is it possible my statement "I disagree with the introduction of Latin . . ." could be interpreted as a refusal of the Mass to those who ask for it?
(And, why does Ohevin use a pseudonym?)
If you want to find a comspiracy hiding in every shadow, that is a shame. I purposely worded my preference in the simplest of terms to avoid nit picking by the insecure. Some are devoted to Latin, some are not. If a number of parishioners ask for Latin, the pastor can consider this input then make the final decision, as is his right. In fact, it is his job. None of us want to run the parish nor do we want to insist our pastor do whatever we want. We do, however, have the privilege to express our opinions and preferences, allowing our pastors to consider all sides and then act as they see fit.
Rich Koon

John said...

IT WAS SIMPLY A MATTER OF TIME FOR THE LIBERATION OF THE CLASSIC LATIN MASS CODIFIED AT THE COUNCIL OF TRENT (TRIDENTINE LITURGY)A LITURGY NEVER OUTLAWED, NEVER ABROGATED. A DEMOGRAPHIC FACT KNOWN TO MANY DICASTERIES IN THE VATICAN AND BOTH POPE JOHN PAUL 2 & POPE BENEDICT 16TH WAS THE EVERY INCREASING REQUESTS FOR THE RE-INTRODUCTION OF THE JOHN 23 LITURGY.LITERALLY MILLIONS OF CATHOLICS (LATIN-RITE) WORLDWIDE WERE & ARE DEMANDING IT'S RETURN ON A PARISH LEVEL AND ON A DAILY BASIS. THIS MOVEMENT IS LEAD BY CATHOLIC YOUTH IN EVERY COUNTRY.THERE WAS A BILIGERENT ATTITUDE OF MANY OF THE 60'S ERA BISHOPS, NOT ONLY RESISTANCE BUT DISOBEDIENCE TO POPE JOHN PAUL 2'S ECCESIA DEI INITIATIVE TO RE-INTRODUCE THE CLASSIC LATIN MASS. THE NEW MOTU PROPRIO SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM OF POPE BENEDICT 16TH (IS NOT AN INDULT) IT HAS AGAIN ELEVATED THE LATIN MASS TO IT'S RIGHTFUL PLACE AFTER YEARS OF SACRILEDGE AND ABUSE OF THE NOVUS ORDO (VENACULAR) SERVICE NEVER ASKED FOR BY THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL BUT MANIPULATED INTO THE SERVICE YOU SEE TODAY IN THE (PAULINE MASS) BY AN AGENDA DRIVEN LIBERAL CLERGY, BISHOPS AND PRIESTS ALIKE. THESE ARE THE KNOWN FACTS THAT ROME IS WELL AWARE OF AND WHETHER THE REACTIONARIES IN THE CHURCH LIKE IT OR NOT THE REFORM OF THE SO-CALLED REFORM IS HERE FOR GOOD. THERE ARE MANY REASONS FOR THE RETURN OF THE 1700 YR OLD LITURGY SOME OF WHICH ARE A NORMALIZING OF THE STATUS OF MARGINALIZED CATHOLICS LIKE THE SOCIETY OF ST. PIUS 10TH AND HAS BE PRAISED BY MILLIONS OF EASTERN ORTHODOX AS A CATHOLIC RETURN FROM THE BRINK OF HETERODOXY. EVEN THE HOSTILE PATRIARCH OF THE 300 MILLION STRONG RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH HAS HEAPED PRAISE ON THE RETURN OF THE TRIDENTINE LITURGY AND SEE'S PROMISE FOR TRUE ECUMENICISM AND RECONCILIATION OF THESE TWO CHURCHS (ROME AND THE EASTERN ORTHODOX PATRIARCATES-------SHALOM

Pat said...

Warm greetings in the True Christmas Spirit!

I hope all is well, you seem very knowledgeable. I read through your blogs--very sharp indeed! Do you have a Doctorate in Divinity or Philosophy?

Anyhow, I was wondering if you could give some priceless advice. I am thinking of buying some good old Catholic theology books for some family members and loved ones, and well, I recently received an advertisement for this very interesting book called "Communicatio in Sacris: The Roman Catholic Church against Intercommunion of non-Catholics" by Mr. William J. DeTucci.

I was wondering if you have seen any book review on this book? I could not find anything on the author. It seems the book talks about the Role of Vatican II in the Modern World and how some Traditionalists have resisted many of the Modernistic teachings of Ecumenism, Religious Liberty, and the New Mass, as opposed to the old Latin Tridentine Mass. However, I also recently read Benedict XVI's Motu Proprio ( www.vatican.va), which seems to be give the Liberty of "Open Communion" to so-called Traditional Catholic Groups who dissent from Vatican II, i.e. Marcel Lefebvre's SSPX, Mark Pivarunas' CMRI, Clarence Kelly's SSPV, Br. Michael Dimond's Most Holy Family Monastery, the various Saint Benedict Centers, Jason Spadafore's Raphael Society, Patrick Taylor's Society of the Virgin Mary, and so many other Independent Bishops at Large)--all who promote Intercommunion Latin Mass Ritual, of course! I think the Spirit of Vatican II is really being recognized now by many of the Traditionalists who once followed Bishop Lefebvre in resisting Vatican II Conciliar Reforms, but since the Motu Proprio Latin Mass Ecumenism has been widely promoted and it has been "well received" by many of these same various Traditionalists Sects and also by many Liberal Bi-Ritual Bishops who offer both the Latin Mass and Ecumenical Modern Liturgies.

However, breaking the rule of judging a book by its cover, and only peaking its table of contents, it seems to me this book is an itchy reaction to this Neo-Ecumenism that both Greek and Latin Churches have been involved with. Not sure if you have read the book, or know of some theologian who has written a review? Here is the link to the contents that I browsed:

http://www.lulu.com/content/1431544

and also here:

http://www.vladcatholic.com

I would most greatly appreciate any book review that you or a theologian has done. This book seems to have positive merit in as much it claims to be "a Compendium of Roman Catholic Doctrine on the subject of Intercommunion with non-Catholics. This book produces the overwhelming theological consensus for the Dogmatic Teaching condemning Intercommunion with non-Catholics, putting together a treasury of Sacred Scriptures, Church Fathers, Doctors, Saints, Theologians, and Popes who have written on the matter."

However, I just wanted to verify that before I make my last minute shopping for this Christmas & New Year Season.

May God bless you all!

Kind regards,

Patty