Saturday, July 07, 2007

Well, the pope done did it!

All those I told, time and again, not to react prematurely, not to act on rumor or second-hand information, to be patient, wait and see...

Have at it!

I'm referring, of course, to the much discussed, trumpeted and feared motu proprio by the successor of St. Peter on the use of the older form of the Latin Mass (you will note my wording; it is accurate, even if it is surprising. See below.*)

I just read the documents -- there are two, the "legal" document that actually contains the new norms, and a cover letter to the bishops explaining them and responding to some concerns -- and I am struck by several things:

This is definitely "power to the people." The document is very clear: the priest can offer the old Mass on his own initiative; he can do so "privately," only then, the people can come. (And don't kid yourself; how will the people know? The priest will "let it slip"!) So, in effect, the priest can organize such groups, starting simply by offering the old Mass. But more remarkably, whether the priest does that or not, the people can simply come to the priest, and ask for it--and the priest is expected to respond favorably, as best he can. If he doesn't, the bishop is expected to act to help (i.e., perhaps another priest, or training for the priest, etc.) If he doesn't help, it goes to Rome. But the entire arrangement seems to say, tip it in favor of the people's request!

This is "power to the people." And so those who choose to call this anti-Vatican II, I wouldn't recommend saying that too soon before or after you claim Vatican II was all about empowering the laity and ending excessive clerical power, because, um, people might notice the two statements don't follow.

This won't be easy on priests or some parishes. For example, I will have to get trained in the old Mass; I still have a lot of work to do refining my celebration of the current rite. Nothing against the old rite, but I wasn't looking for more. Fear not, I'm going to be positive, because I trust the pope. But finding time to do it won't be easy.

Also, I will most likely have to buy additional ritual books, and who knows what else that goes with them. I really have no idea. This will cost real money. Getting that done, doing it right, again will all take time as well. (It's more than the old Missal, because the pope said all this applies to baptisms, marriages, anointing of the sick, etc.)

Hint: if you are going to pursue this in your parish, you might want to offer to help with these additional costs. They may be considerable, get ready. And--to be fair--don't take it away from other parish needs, either! That's dirty pool!

This is about how the Church, and history, views Vatican II--and that's big This should signal it's time to stop using the "new v. old" Church and Mass way of explaining Vatican II. Sorry, that's both incorrect and now it's clearly unhelpful. The pope--the pope--is saying that's wrong. I know, a lot of us were told that, and on behalf of those who told you that, wearing a collar--I'm sorry. But the time has now arrived to stop.

This marks a new era--the era of we invented a new church, "sing a new church," out with the old (some cheer, some boo, some cry), in with the new (some cheer, some boo, some cry), is over. There is one Church. And there is one, great Roman tradition, and at some point in the future, the Mass of the ages, which is the "old Rite," and the revised form of the Mass called for by Vatican II, are not far apart but very close, really all part of one lex orandi ("law" or norm of praying). The pope is acting to arrest the drifting of them apart, and to bring them back together; not necessarily united, although that may be what God will bring about in years to come, but clearly much closer.

This also means, I must say, that those who are arguing for an essentially "contemporary" celebration of the Mass--as opposed to an essentially traditional celebration, which includes elements that are contemporary (can you see that these are different?), would seem to be on the defensive. I don't say that exultantly, but it is time for those who have been rather strident, on that score, to realize their position.

Now we have the great tradition itself, plus what the Council said, plus what re-thinking liturgists and bishops are starting to say, plus what many of the faithful are saying, and now, plus what the pope is saying, and what the norms of the Church herself are going to provide for. I don't kid myself; it's going to be a bumpy ride for many years, but unless a future pope rescinds this; or the enthusiasm for old form fades, it seems the re-integration of the two forms of the Roman liturgy is now official policy from the highest level.

Will the enthusiasm for the older forms fade? Ironically, they may, precisely as the old and new become better integrated. One wonders if the immediate implementation of the Council's mandates had been handled -- for lack of a better term -- more "conservatively," we might well have a unified rite already. God only knows.

Will a future pope rescind this? Of course he may, but consider the grief that would cause him? The most favorable occasion to do so would be...when it is no longer needed. I.e., if and when the development of the liturgy has moved to a new place of harmony--just what the pope has called for.

Contention is not the pope's doing. Some will accuse the pope of "creating discord." Don't kid yourself, it was already there. I think he's trying to seek a long-term path away from it. Just because parishes are completely in the "contemporary" mode, that doesn't mean they've escaped conflict--they've simply moved it to the parish boundary, or that of the diocese, or that of the social circle: "us v. them." For that matter, when the Church of today is divorced from the Church of the ages, that is not progress, it's death.

There's more I could say, but I must head over and offer Mass.

* I call it the "older form" because all other names are either misleading or obscure. To call it the "Tridentine Mass" implies it originated at Trent, which is seriously mistaken--it preceded that council by something like a thousand years. To refer to the Missal of Blessed John XXIII is correct, but not terribly enlightening to most.

To call it the "Latin Mass" is flat wrong for reasons I will explain presently. The Mass of the "Roman Rite" -- that's us Roman Catholics, remember not all Catholics are Roman -- is, by definition, the "Latin Mass." Even when you don't celebrate it in Latin, it remains "the Latin Mass." While I know that's not common usage, it is confusing usage, especially in light of this decision. So let's stop being confusing.

To refer the older form as its own "rite" is also wrong, because "rite" refers to a great segment of the Church, and there is not two Roman Rites -- two great segments of the Church originating from the city of Rome -- but solely one Roman Rite. To the extent liturgy has, in recent decades, become a battleground, the pope is aiming to chart a path back toward greater unity around one Roman Rite -- and, note, "Rite" implies that this identity of the Roman "segment" is united around the liturgy; yet another reason the pope is acting, because the Roman liturgy, in recent years, has hardly been very unified in its expression, except in a very lowest-common-denominator way.

61 comments:

mrsdarwin said...

Great post, Father. It's interesting to read your assessment of the real practical implications of this at a parish level.

I know there's an "older form of the Latin Mass" celebrated in our diocese down at the cathedral; I can't say how well it's attended. Perhaps more people would come if it were celebrated at more parishes around the diocese, but I can't help thinking that most "traditional" or "conservative" Catholics would be very satisfied to attend a new Mass (in Latin or in the vernacular) that didn't contain what Pope Benedict called "deformations of the liturgy".

NoSpeaktusLatinus said...

Father, I was born during Vatican II. Although I am sure my folks took me to Masses that were said in Latin, it goes without saying that I certainly don't recall any of them. I can only recall attending Masses that were said in English.

That said, I'd like to consider myself a rather conservative, orthodox Catholic, albeit one that has much more to learn about our faith.

That being the case, where would someone like me even begin learn the Latin that is said in the "older form of the Latin Mass?" To be blunt, I don't think I know a single word of Latin.

Thanks in advance for any help that you (or others) can offer to me. God bless.

Charles said...

Might I humbly suggest that folks consider putting one of these http://www.papalshop.com/bumper/index.html on the backs of their cars? They're a great way to show solidarity with our Holy Father. Viva il papa!

Roseberry said...

Father, you probably don't need to worry about not having the necessary books and materials to offer the Traditional Mass. Traditionalists are almost everywhere very good about digging deep to provide the necessities for the Mass, and they don't take it out of the donations for the general support of the parish and other worthy causes.

You will find some Traditionalists critical, difficult, and even dyspepsic, but most are good, devout people, who will be very grateful for the gift you say you will provide.

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9jPKkqI7n0

Anonymous said...

As one layperson, I am very happy about the pope's decisions concerning liturgy.
Annie

RAnn said...

Father, how many people would you have to have ask for the older mass in order to make you think you (or someone who might not particularly want to) would have to offer it? 5? 10? 1/2 the amount who usually come to your smallest mass? As many as usually come to mass? Isn't there a limit on how many masses you can offer daily? Should the minority be able to to "force" you to use one of them for their preferred form, our could you meet thier needs by sending them across town where mass has been offered in that way for years?

Lynne said...

Rann, Father Fox is the pastor of 2(!) churches so maybe the church across town is his too! These things will take time to work through. I'm sorry for speaking for you, Father, but perhaps one of the churches isn't set up to easy celebrate the classic Latin Mass so that would help drive the decision.

As other posters have said, I'm sure the people in your parish who want to attend the classic Latin Mass will assist financially...

Thank you for having a gung-ho attitude. It will be interesting to see where we all are a year or two or three from now.

We certainly live in exciting times!

Mark said...

Father:

As a traditionalist I find your post interesting, but also a little puzzling: you write of reintegration and unification of the NO and TLM rites. If I understand correctly, you read this motu propio as possibly authorizing experimentation and the creation of a third rite. I don't see that, but maybe I'm misunderstanding your point. In any event, it is very unlikely that the two rites will blend at the parish level, and form a local third rite. The power of a parish liturgical council, a common engine for such innovations, is restricted to the NO rite. TLM is off limits to parish liturgical councils.

Matt said...

Great post, Father! And what a great Pope we have!!!

Anonymous said...

Re: parish liturgical council

Am I wrong in believing that the priest of any parish is the one who ultimately makes decisions and that all these committees and officers that make up the parish council are only advisory in nature?

Curious

Dr. Malcolm C. Harris, Sr. said...

Fr. Fox,

You attitude is the true spirit of Vatican II.

NoSpeaktusLatinus wonders how he/she will "learn the Latin that is said in the 'older form of the Latin Mass'." I do not think you will need to learn much Latin. It was common practice to follow the old mass by using a missal with Latin on one side and English on the other. The Liturgical Movement and Vatican II wanted to emphasize the high or sung mass and reduce the importance of low or said mass. Thus the congregation would again sing its parts of the mass (in Latin.) It gave pride of place to
Gregorian chant, the music of the people. You do not need to be a Latin scholar nor do you need to be a great singer to chant the people's parts of the old mass. This is what the Council meant by "full and active participation" in the mass.

NoSpeaktusLatinus, you will find that the non verbal communication of the older form of the Latin rite conveys both an atmosphere and specific messages that will change your understanding of the mass.


Mark's puzzlement is understandable, but this is the very heart of Benedict's program. The older use stopped developing in 1962. This will allow normal organic change to resume in the traditional Latin mass. As individual priests learn the older mass and Catholics experience the it, the ordinary use of the Latin rite will relearn the reverence, the solemnity, and the trancendance of the traditional Latin mass. This will lead to the ordinary use moving more in line with what the Council fathers approved. The TLM will lead by example but it will n longer be stuck in 1962.

As for parish liturgical councils: infiltrate them. Their purview is liturgy. The Latin rite has only one liturgy with at least two uses and a number of rites (e.g., The Roman rite, the Ambrosian, etc.) Advocate more Latin, and giving the people music they can sing (i.e., chant.)

Anonymous said...

Father, you write that "This will cost real money". I don't know why that would be. Missals with English and Latin on facing pages are widely available for about $50.

Father Martin Fox said...

Anonymous:

The holy father authorized the faithful to request all the sacraments per the old usage.

Here are the ritual books I will need:

* 1962 Missal for use on the altar.
* Lectionary that accompanies (different from current)
* Ritual for baptisms
* Ritual for anointing of the sick
* Ritual for confession
* Ritual for marriage
(Perhaps some of these are combined in old use; they are published separately today)

This is probably several hundred dollars' worth of books. Before vestments, which are much more.

Bill said...

Fr. Fox,

I admire your attitude, but start small and think realistically. Don't bite off more than you can chew. Start with the Mass and then work your way to the various other sacraments gradually and over time.

Would pastors in your area be able to group together and pool resources to offer the extraordinary use of the Roman Rite to people who request it? And since you've got two parishes, I don't know if you're already binating on weekdays or trinating on Sundays?

1) Missale Romanum

This is the one thing you absolutely need. Roman Catholic Books sells new a 1962 altar missal reprint for $155 (the last time I checked their website).

The FSSP is also recommending some how-to manuals that explain the rubrics and also an associated videotape. These might total another $100 (a pure, off-the-top-of-my-head guess).

@ Anonymous--the $50 missal with facing Latin-English that you referred to is a hand missal for someone in a pew, not an altar missal.

2) Lectionary

The Missale Romanum has all of the readings in it (of course they're in Latin). And they're read at the altar. So all you need to read the English text of the readings from the pulpit before the homily is just a Bible. If you want to read the English texts at the altar (which the motu proprio suggests as a possibility), honestly, stick photocopies of Bible pages into the missal. It's not an elegant solution, but it will work and you can do it immediately. But I suspect that most people asking for the 1962 Mass expect the readings to be in Latin from the altar and then read again in English from the pulpit before the homily.

3) Rituale Romanum

This was generally printed as one volume, although I once saw a 3-volume, Latin-English version on eBay (I don't remember its date). You might want to hold off on getting this right away to see if, in light of the new motu proprio, someone reprints the Rituale Romanum in effect in 1962. And as I suggested, start with the Mass first. I really don't think anyone expects you to become entirely expert with how all of the sacraments were administered in 1962 in two months.

4) Vestments

Use the vestments you currently have. If you don't now have Roman ("fiddleback") chasubles, don't go out and buy them. The one vestment you do need to get (in all of the appropriate liturgical colors) is a maniple (I'm assuming you have everything else since only the maniple was suppressed after Vatican II). Doubtless the FSSP can suggest a source for maniples.

The one liturgical color (with associated vestments) you probably don't have is black. Since it's only used for funerals, I don't see this as an immediate need. Again, concentrate on the Mass.

Simon-Peter Vickers-Buckley said...

This means no extra-ordinary minions of unholy confusion and their norm-violating presence and time-wasting (irony).

That won't go down well.

The Holy Father has been complaining since the mid 1970s (in his sermons) about absues and deformations in the Mass of Paul VI. Sacramentum Caritatis was littered with adverse judgments against elements of the episcopacy, priesthood, religious life, laity and "experts" as is this (in fact) Motu Proprio.

It seems no one really listens...

Rann: that's pathetic.

Father: the FFSP, in June 2007, at Our Lady of Guadalupe
seminary in Denton, Nebraska, just held training! You missed it! They are supposed to be having training later in the year, perhaps, sooner than they thought. Cost last time was subsidized at just $300.

Please contact Fr. Goodwin at (402) 797-7700 or email:
seminary@fsspolgs.org or write to: Attn: Mass Workshops, O.L.G.
Seminary, P.O. Box 147, Denton, NE. 68339.



You might ask Sean Tribe at the New Liturgical Movement about books, vestments etc. Email stribe@rogers.com for more info. I must disagree about vestments. Don't be fooled by externals...get yourself a proper Roman Chasuble, Biretta &c. The current vestments *are* a rupture and signify the same front and centre. You are a priest of the order of melchizedek, not some wizard from a land of towers and damsels.

You might also want to ask around from any retired priests who would be willing to give you their old items.

Learning the Mass. You could do what I did as a server.

1. Find a priest who will let you video-tape low Mass with one server, low mass with two (BOYS!!!! hurrah...there's no wimmin in the old Mass).
2. Transfer to DVD to aid in playback, pause, play, pause, play, pause etc.
3. Wtach, watch and watch again...
4. As you are watching, read the prayers and rubrics in your missal or handbook
5. Get a big notpad, pen, and draw out your movements, movements of the servers and all other things step by step as though you were storyboarding.
6. Practice.

It's not hard unless one makes it hard.

Rich Leonardi said...

That being the case, where would someone like me even begin learn the Latin that is said in the "older form of the Latin Mass?" To be blunt, I don't think I know a single word of Latin.

The Latin Mass Society of England & Wales offers a free online course in the Latin of the old missal.

Anonymous said...

There are a number of programs in Latin on the Vatican radio listing of programs. Mass in Latin is at 7:30 CET (which I think is 1:30 a.m. EDT). It is easy access their live programs online.

link -
http://www.vatican.va/news_services/radio/palinsesto/FM105_ing.htm

Melanie B said...

"3. Wtach, watch and watch again...
4. As you are watching, read the prayers and rubrics in your missal or handbook
5. Get a big notpad, pen, and draw out your movements, movements of the servers and all other things step by step as though you were storyboarding.
6. Practice.

It's not hard unless one makes it hard."

Have you read one of Fr. Fox's "day in the life of a priest" blog entries? I don't see how he has the time to do all the things he normally has to cram into a week, much less watch videos over and over again, complete with diagramming, . What you outline may "not be hard", but it sure is time consuming.

Anonymous said...

You nailed it, Father. You are a good priest. Take it a little bit at a time and continue to be of good heart and you will do just fine.

God bless you.

Maureen said...

Re: missals for the people

At least one publisher has jumped on this and is offering a 1962 Missal for $8.95. Which reminds me -- I'd better order me one!

Re: the priests' Mass books

Check your parish attics, closets and undercroft cubbyholes! A lot of this stuff may still be around somewhere. Thirty-forty years isn't really that long for a parish to store unused books. Same is true for vestments and items.

You might ask around. People notice things they've come across in odd places.

Sarah L. said...

Father Fox, you are a breath of fresh air! Thanks for the helpful comments, and keep up the good work.

David L Alexander said...

"As a traditionalist I find your post interesting, but also a little puzzling: you write of reintegration and unification of the NO and TLM rites. If I understand correctly, you read this motu propio as possibly authorizing experimentation and the creation of a third rite...."

This is a common misconception, unfortunately, which is easily dispelled upon examination. There are no plans for, and very little discussion about, the creation of a "third rite."

Along with the motu proprio, is an explanatory letter from the Holy Father himself. It can be found here, scrolling about halfway down to where it says "Letter of His Holiness:

Summorum Pontificum

Anonymous said...

I, too, thank you. Your comments seem very generous and helpful. Blessings

Anonymous said...

"But I suspect that most people asking for the 1962 Mass expect the readings to be in Latin from the altar and then read again in English from the pulpit before the homily."

Really, I think most people just want a Mass that is worshipful, reverent and fully focused on God and the Holy Sacrifice. It wouldn't have to be in Latin and Latin is not the point! The point is reverent worship of the eternal Almighty. The point is behaving as if you really believe the words of the Creed.
Father, you mention several hundred dollars. I think of the dozens (and maybe in a month's time, hundreds) of people I saw today strolling casually toward Communion, chattering during the Consecration; they don't know what they or the priest is doing. There's a very serious problem and it has nothing to do with Latin.

TerryC said...

"Find a priest who will let you video-tape low Mass with one server, low mass with two (BOYS!!!! hurrah...there's no wimmin in the old Mass)."

While many trads may follow this convention, I do not believe that there is any legal reason why this should be so. Can someone cite an actual legal church document supporting this stand?

Do you know father?

Anonymous said...

readers may be interested in this:

Baronius Press announces its intention to launch a new “Motu Proprio” Edition its best selling 1962 Missal.

Following the Holy Father’s Motu Proprio, Baronius Press, is delighted and honoured to announce a Motu Proprio Edition of the 1962 Daily Missal, to be published on the Feast of the Holy Triumph (September 14th 2007).



This will include the full text of the Motu Proprio in Latin and English.


Copies can be pre-ordered at our website www.baroniuspress.com , and will be shipped as soon as printing has been completed (Sept/Oct 2007).

beez said...

You nailed it, Father. This is the "springtime" of the Church. This is the time for both extremes, those who are "radical traditionalists" and those who are "spirit of the Council" to, if you will, put up or shut up!

It's time for both extremes to stop jumping over the side of the Barque of Peter while they scream that they are the only ones who are "right" and join those of us who faithfully, prayerfully and obediently obey our Holy Mother Church.

God Bless Benedict XVI for putting, in a few pages, the essence of the Church. We are ONE, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. We're not a liberal church and a conservative church!

bryan boyle said...

Well, Father, if you were in my parish and expressed the need for all the liturgical books needed to properly offer the ancient usage...you and I would sit down, find out where they were available, and the check would be cut on the spot.

God bless you for your open mind towards this blessing the Holy Father, in his solicitude for the souls entrusted to him and you willingness to try.

Many do not share your view. To be expected...

Tom S. said...

Father, I appreciate your wonderful attitude towards Summorum Pontificum.
I pray that all priests have your positive outlook!

BUT, before you worry about Latin, you need to work on your english...
The correct title to this post should be "Well, the pope done DONE it!"

David L Alexander said...

"Find a priest who will let you video-tape low Mass with one server, low mass with two (BOYS!!!! hurrah...there's no wimmin in the old Mass)."

Can someone cite an actual legal church document supporting this stand?


The performing of liturgical functions within the "presbyterium" (the place of presiding, basically the sanctuary) by women has never been the norm, but an indulgence which has been granted over the years in different situations, pertaining to the reformed usage of the Roman rite. No such indulgence has ever been granted until that time, and so it would not exist for the classical usage.

There are documents dating back several centuries objecting to the presence of women in the sanctuary during the sacred liturgy. Exceptions are for weddings (where a ministerial function is undertaken by the woman as the bride), and solemn professions of religious.

To cite a specific "legal church document" would be a daunting task, but since "custom is the best interpreter of law," it is safe to say, in addition to considering the above, that women and girls could not possibly serve for the "Old Mass."

Theocoid said...

I can't remember how recommended this terminology, but I think "classical use of the Roman Missal" (classical use for short) would seem to fit the bill.

trevor said...

Father, I have a priest's rituale, that's been boxed up at home for years.
It has the usual blessings for objects as well as the formula for confessions and annointing the sick. If you would like it, respond on here and we'll figure out how to contact each other.I believe the book is a 1964 version but the old formulas are there, in latin, as well as an English translation

Bill said...

Really, I think most people just want a Mass that is worshipful, reverent and fully focused on God and the Holy Sacrifice. It wouldn't have to be in Latin and Latin is not the point!

Anonymous, speaking of "the point," you've seemingly missed mine entirely. While I don't disagree the people want to go to a Mass that is celebrated reverently, I was responding to Fr. Fox's specific statement as to which liturgical books he'd need to buy to celebrate the extraordinary use.

Anonymous said...

What should arrive in my mailbox today but a catalog from Roman Catholic Books (BooksforCatholics.com) and on the front cover is a Latin-English Sunday Missal for $8.95. (I have nothing to do with this company so I'm not advertising.) You've gotta love the timing!

Anonymous said...

Personally, I think the Pope is crazy. He has invigorated a controversy that was finally settling down, because some of the liberties taken with the ordinary mass have been corrected or otherwise eliminated.

Nobody takes Latin anymore. It has been dropped from the curriculum almost everywhere. Who's going to attend the older mass and understand what's going on? Reading along in an English translation isn't really participating. I think the mass in latin will provide a "new age" mystical experience for people, at least for a while, but who's going to really spend time learning Latin, when there are other living languages that people will find more useful.

It will be fun to sit back and watch the traditionalist leaning folks take liberties with the motu proprio just as many people did with the 1970 reform. Can anybody say "extraordinary rite?". Hopefully some of you can say it in Latin without any assistance.

Marion (Mael Muire) said...

Anonymous who "thinks the Pope is Crazy" asked, "Who's going to attend the older mass and understand what's going on?"

Setting aside for now her mean-spirited remark about the Holy Father, Anonymous raises one interesting question.

Her question raises another: "How many among those who attend the vernacular Novus Ordo 'understand what is going on'?" In other words, how many Catholics today understand and believe that the Eucharist they are celebrating is the transformation of bread and wine into the body, blood, soul and divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us?

According to the polls I've read, sizable numbers of Catholics report that they don't know or believe this central teaching of the Church. So, what seems to be happening is that these Catholics are understanding the words of the Mass in their own language perfectly well, but they don't believe what they are hearing.

How does that leave us better off?

Andrea Brown said...

Father, may I direct you to the article of Monday July 9th (Private Masses) found on Orate Caeli.com. You might find the last two paragraphs helpful for your particular situation.

Anonymous said...

Terry C,
The Mass of John XXIII has precise rubrics so some things don't happen, it's true. But then one doesn't get nasty surprises either. =)

Muriel said...

Father Philip can help you here:

http://athanasiuscm.blogspot.com/2007/07/notice-to-all-priests-in-southern.html

Muriel said...

Sorry for the typo... my message should have read:

Father, Philip can help you here:

http://athanasiuscm.blogspot.com/2007/07/notice-to-all-priests-in-southern.html

Andrea Brown said...

There is a website for those wanting to contact individuals in their area (or across the world - for that matter), who are interested in the Extraordinary Mass. It certainly is a great tool for networking and a great help for people to get something started in their locale. It includes priests, religious and laity. There are also sub-categories: e.g. Priest - (elebrant, provide training, needs training) and Laity - (schola, server, wish to attend) To take this a little further - It would be great if people would be encouraged to place a notice of this website and any other pertinent info in their parish bulletin every week untill at least September 14th.

The website is:

lumengentleman.com


Andrea Brown
Anaheim, CA

The young fogey said...

Me on the motu.

TE Déum laudámus: * te Dóminum confitémur...

Andrea Brown said...

Father,

I know that you may think I've developed 'postitis' in regard to your website. I would like to let you and your readers know that there is a new website that may turn out to be the 'info center' for the Summorum Pontificum.
Sooooo... many resources on this site.

summorumpontificum.net

Andrea Brown

Anonymous said...

"This also means, I must say, that those who are arguing for an essentially "contemporary" celebration of the Mass--as opposed to an essentially traditional celebration, which includes elements that are contemporary (can you see that these are different?), would seem to be on the defensive. I don't say that exultantly, but it is time for those who have been rather strident, on that score, to realize their position."

Um.. Father... the Holy Father hasn't commented that current, contemporary or otherwise, liturgies are any more or less authentic or part of the 'one mass'.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Contemporary (if they are authentic) liturgies in the new formula are EITHER just as valid - and hence, their 'strident' supporters on just as sure a footing today as they were yesterday.... or there are two masses - not one.

It amazes me - reading throughout the blogsphere, and not being one personally 'tied' to either side of this argument - how BOTH sides tend to read into the Holy Father's letter what they choose to see.

I find - in my reading - that very, very often, BOTH sides are just as inaccurate in what they claim the other should see.

Father Martin Fox said...

Reply to Anonymous post just before this one:

You quote me:

"This also means, I must say, that those who are arguing for an essentially "contemporary" celebration of the Mass--as opposed to an essentially traditional celebration, which includes elements that are contemporary (can you see that these are different?), would seem to be on the defensive. I don't say that exultantly, but it is time for those who have been rather strident, on that score, to realize their position."

Then say:

"Um.. Father... the Holy Father hasn't commented that current, contemporary or otherwise, liturgies are any more or less authentic or part of the 'one mass'."

"You can't have your cake and eat it too. Contemporary (if they are authentic) liturgies in the new formula are EITHER just as valid - and hence, their 'strident' supporters on just as sure a footing today as they were yesterday.... or there are two masses - not one."

Perhaps I was unclear, or you are misunderstanding me.

The key word in what I said was "essentially." Many people assert -- very strongly -- that the Mass should be essentially contemporary -- i.e., any use of Gregorian chant, polyphony, Latin, or anything else traditional (i.e., traditional-style vestments, bells, chalice veils, etc.) is out of place.

That is a mistaken position; and we didn't need the holy father's recent letter to know that; the documents of Vatican II, and the GIRM, in all editions since, would make that clear.

But for anyone who still thought the matter in dispute, the holy father's letter does answer it, insofar as he says, explicitly, that what was sacred for so much of the Church's history, remains sacred; and he called for the two usages of the Roman Rite mutually to enrich each other.

I see no way that the old usage can "enrich" the new without elements of the old returning to the new, to the extent they were unaccountably banished.

Also, I fail to see how adding occasional chant, as parsley on the plate, can fulfill the Council's mandate that Gregorian chant have -- and I quote: "pride of place."

Currently, in most parishes, Marty Haugen and David Haas have "pride of place." I am not against using their music -- we do use it -- but that is the sort of too-contemporary experience of Mass I have in mind.

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